Versed Editors's blog

We often see students that show interest and aptitude in STEM, also show significant talent in music. This week, we sat down with Belinda, from New York City, whose son is pursuing a Biological Sciences major and Astrophysics minor at the University of Chicago, about this very topic.  She talked to us about nurturing a child’s interest in science, and about helping her children discover music. Her insights will resonate with many parents that have children with strong interests in STEM and music.

Versed: When did you start thinking about college for your kids?

Belinda: Because education has been such an important part of my family growing up, I can safely say that I thought about education for my own children from the day they were born.  I am sure college was in the back of my mind as well - not about getting our children into a certain school, but that college was always going to be an important part of their education.  

Versed: What did the educational/extracurricular journey look like for your kids in grade school? 

Belinda: At the early ages, it was all about giving them exposure.  We took our children to museums, concerts, enrolled them in music classes, got them to try sports, and read all kinds of books with them.  My family has always been musical, so music education was a big part of my children’s education.  My children were enrolled in all kinds of music classes and schools including Diller-Quaile Music School, School for Strings, and the pre-college divisions at  ManhattanSchool of Music and the Juilliard School.  

Versed: How did you determine what was interesting to your kids?

Belinda: We took our children’s lead.  We exposed them to a lot of different things, and when they showed strong interest, we felt that it was our job as parents to find the resources to support those interests.  My oldest son was drawn to French Horn because of a music teacher at school who was a French Horn player.  My daughter took to the violin at the age of 3 and enjoyed it, although she ultimately moved on to singing and musical theater.  She is now involved with the Met Opera Children’s Chorus and loves theater.  My middle son tried a number of different instruments, and ultimately decided on the clarinet, but when he became really involved in soccer, music education took a back seat.  What parents don’t always realize is that every instrument is different, in terms of the age at which children can start, how much practicing is involved, the type of music and the role that it plays in orchestras and other ensembles, whether it can be played across genres (classical vs. jazz), and even how much stamina is required!  Experimenting and finding the right instrument for your child is definitely a process and something parents should seek advice on.

My oldest son at the University of Chicago has always shown interest in the sciences.  As a kid, he always asked a lot of questions and was curious about so many things.  Like many young kids, he went through a phase of wanting to know everything about dinosaurs, and we helped him explore that interest in depth by taking him to the American History Museum regularly, surrounding him with books and good quality shows, but mostly, delving into the subject with him in all its complexities, not simplifying it to his age audience.  For this, I have my mother to thank for, who has a background in education and spent many hours and days talking to him about everything that he was curious about.

Versed: How did your parenting change in regards to your children’s education / extracurricular journey as they entered middle school and high school?

Belinda: Middle school was a time that my son went deeply into both music and science, while still continuing to explore different facets of his interests.  My son auditioned and enrolled at the Manhattan School of Music for French Horn, but he also explored the trumpet.  When he was entering high school, he decided that he wanted to audition for Juilliard, which was a big decision in that their focus was entirely classical, and also the practice and dedication required was really significant.  In his first year there, we thought perhaps this was not the right choice as he struggled and lost interest, but by the end of the first year, he said he wanted to stick it out and continue.  He ultimately changed his major to composition which ended up being a much better fit for him, but it certainly required a lot of planning, experimenting and advocating to make sure that he was pursuing music on his terms, doing what he loved most. 

On the academic side, through CTY/Johns Hopkins summer programs, he was able to start exploring subjects in science that middle and high schools typically don’t offer.  It was a great opportunity to explore and go deeply into subjects he was interested in while getting introduced to the rigorous academic environment that will come in high school and beyond.  

During his high school summers, he did research through a program at the University of Chicago at the Brain Institute and independent research at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center.  He was able to leverage his higher level knowledge and demonstrated interest from CTY summer studies to apply for and find internships in independent research.  All of these experiences really solidified for him what he wanted to study in college.

We were always very supportive of what our son wanted to do, and while focusing and going deeper into the few things that he loved most, we were not afraid for him to still experiment.  

Versed: How was the college admissions process for your son who is at the University of Chicago?

Belinda: You always hear the advice about finding a school that is the right fit for the student, and our journey was definitely a case study in that.  My son initially applied Early Decision to a school that he was deferred from.  But it turned out to be the best outcome, as he ultimately ended up in the right school for him.  Given his interest in music and his love of science, University of Chicago ended up being such a great fit for him.  He wrote a very quirky essay, which I initially thought was too different but his guidance counselor thought that it would work for University of Chicago as they take pride in a student body of independent thinkers who challenge the status quo.  We worked really closely with the school counselor to make sure that the message was conveyed to the school that this was his first choice.  It really is about the fit, that the student is right for the school, and vice versa.  Don’t be afraid to have your child’s personality come out, that can make a difference.

Versed: What resources were most helpful to your children when they were going through the college application process? Test prep, essay guidance, interviewing guide, researching schools, guidance counselors, etc.

Belinda: One is working closely with the college counselors, making sure that you have the right counselor, and advocating the school for a different one if the fit is not there.  Another is giving your child the support that they need with additional academic help at school and through tutors if necessary.  Most importantly, talk to parents that have gone through the process and have children at the colleges that your child is looking at.  They will give you information and insight you will not find anywhere - not just about academics and programs, but social environment as well.

Versed: Can you share with us one of your takeaways from this whole experience?

Belinda: You need to do things for the right reason, and there are so many different paths in any child’s educational journey that you need to embrace the trial and error: trying things, going for things, and know that things happen at different times for each student.  People always talk about how unfair the system is, and I agree that it is not perfect, but there are things that every parent can do to help their children navigate the system for the right reason - so that they find and develop their interests, continually challenge themselves, and grow.

See Belinda’s Profile here.

If you are interested in speaking with Belinda, or one of our other Advisors, you can start with a free introductory consultation here.

Subscribe to our Newsletter 

Receive inside track information on college admissions process, high school and middle school planning, general pre-college guidance, and be the first to know about our events and announcements.

This week, we sat down to speak with our Advisor Amy about her daughter's wide-ranging interests in the arts, computer science and math, and how she knew that MIT was the right school for her.  Taking cues from her daughter’s interests and needs, Amy provides insights on supporting a child with an unconventional academic path that included an international school, online classes and a gap year during high school.

Versed: When did you start thinking about college for your daughter?

Amy: We’ve always lived in urban areas and near many famous universities. I’d point out the schools to my daughter when she was really young, and let her know some interesting tidbit about them (if a relative or famous author went there…). When my daughter reached 8th grade, a few honors classes became available and this led to a conversation that to be eligible for the top colleges, her transcript would have to show that she took the most advanced coursework available. 

Versed: What did the educational/extracurricular journey look like for your daughter? 

Amy: My daughter attended the same international/foreign language school from grades 1 - 12. She skipped kindergarten and another grade. At various times she took online English courses through EPGY (Stanford Education Program for Gifted Youth) and CTY (JHU Center for Talented Youth) to supplement her school’s English program. At the end of 10th grade, we decided she’d take a gap year and undo a skip so she wouldn’t be so young during her first year of college.  

Although I tried to expose my daughter to as many extracurricular and life opportunities as possible, she was not a child who would try things to test them out. Basically, she would decide that she liked something and she would do it consistently and at a pretty high level until she tired of it. What would become her main interests (singing, fencing, art, fashion) sprang from her imagination, and as long as she chose the activity, she was dedicated to it. When she was small, she really just wanted to play at home using her toys and her imagination, and she was very happy doing that. She’s always been a voracious reader and I made sure she had plenty of books.

Versed: How did you determine what was interesting to your daughter?  

Amy: As another Parent Advisor put it, I saw myself as an opportunity-maker for my daughter. I kept my eyes and ears open for interesting experiences, activities and books, and I’d offer them to her. 

My daughter has always had strong opinions about things, so she was always clear about what she did and didn’t like. She would usually come up with her own ideas of what she wanted to do and I’d make them happen. When she was really little, she developed a passion for opera, so I took her to a performance of a pocket opera. I think she saw a flyer somewhere that advertised fencing, and that’s what prompted her to take up fencing.  

Versed: Your daughter attends MIT right now. How did she know that this was the right school for her? What process led her to apply to this school, and ultimately to enroll?

Amy: My daughter was always strong in the language arts, and wasn’t much interested in math until high school. Once she became interested in math, I encouraged her to try out some math camps, but she wasn’t interested. During her gap year, my daughter learned to code, which then led to a summer internship at a startup company and an interest in computer science. Given her interests in the humanities, CS and math, combined with the fact that she did not want to attend a school that required a thesis or had other requirements in which she had no interest, MIT fit the bill. My daughter’s school college counselor and a private essay writing tutor I hired helped her to compile a list of schools. It was not a long list since she was very picky about the attributes of the schools, but mostly included schools she could see herself attending.  

We didn’t visit any of the schools in person because my daughter traveled for fencing and there just wasn’t time available. She took the online virtual tours and attended the local events sponsored by each of the colleges on her list. MIT became her first choice school during this process because she saw herself there and was really excited by their culture and all their academic offerings. After she was accepted, she went to the accepted students weekend to make sure it was what she imagined, and it was. 

Versed: What things did your daughter do in high school to support her interests?

Amy: My daughter sang with a private voice teacher and participated in a conservatory-sponsored musical theater program each summer. She fenced with a local private team and competed in national competitions, including the Junior Olympics. She was also the assistant coach for her school’s elementary school fencing club. The summer after 11th grade, she worked for a tech startup doing coding work. During her gap year, she started volunteering for a women’s empowerment organization, and she continued this through her senior year. For pleasure, she also always read and wrote a lot.  

Versed: What resources were most helpful to your daughter when she was going through the college application process? 

Amy: She did online test prep and took the ACT multiple times. Her school doesn’t offer APs or study help for any standardized testing, so she self-studied from books for the SAT Subject Tests. Since English is not the primary language of my daughter’s school, I hired a writing tutor who pushed her to examine herself and develop her thoughts so she could convey to the admissions departments who she really was. 

Versed: Can you share with us one of your takeaways from this whole experience?

Amy: The college application process is stressful and difficult, but it does provide an opportunity for your child to really figure out who she is and what she wants her future to look like. 

See Amy’s profile here.

This week, our featured Advisor, Robin talks about her son's interest in engineering and his path to Olin, a unique engineering college focused on hands on learning and entrepreneurship.

Versed: When did you start thinking about college for your son?

Robin: When my son was in 8th grade, he started to think about wanting to be placed in honors classes in High School. This gave him an immediate incentive to be cooperative and hard-working in 8th grade. We started having talks about college at that time to create an understanding of the bigger picture of his current actions on his future.

When my son wanted to go to boarding school for high school, I really had to start thinking hard about my priorities for his education, and my financial picture to know what I could handle. I had to decide if spending the ‘college savings’ for high school was aligned with my values and my current situation.

Versed: What did the educational/extracurricular journey look like for your son in grade school?

Robin: My son did public school K-5th, then local independent (private) school for 5th-7th with a grade-skip. Eighth and 9th were back to public school. He then wanted to decelerate and join his age mates, so boarding school gave him a good opportunity to do that. He spent grades 9-12 at boarding school, followed by a gap year, and then college. It was a very challenging time for me as a parent. I had to dig deep inside knowing that I was making decisions for my son that were really unusual for my friends and family. My Dad, for example, had an hour long phone conversation with me, telling me all his fears about boarding school,  I just kept saying, “I love that you care enough to give your advice, and you may be right about that, but we’re going to give it a try” over and over again.  In the end my Dad was so impressed by the remarkable growth in maturity he saw in my son that he thought it was a terrific choice.

Versed: How did you determine what was interesting to your son?

Robin: I saw myself as an opportunity maker for my son. We tried sports, Chess Club and French Club. His Dad and I shared our love of music, art, literature, and drama with him as much as possible. His extended family did the same. Of the things we found worthwhile that we exposed him to, he would let us know what he was interested in or if we were barking up the wrong tree.The most important part of that process was our foundational belief that we are all interested in something, and developing those interests is part of what it means to be one’s best self.

When my son was around age 8, he started participating in programs set up for kids to explore their interests, such as Splash and CTY summer camp, and I was always sure to use that as a chance to let my son choose topics that interested him. We had a lot of great discussions that springboarded off those brochure descriptions.  

My son grew up asking a lot of questions. He and I would regularly discuss the books that we each were reading. He wanted me to give him the TLDR (Too Long, Didn’t Read) version of the audiobooks such as Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers or whatever else I was listening to on my way to work. I figured out what interested him by asking him what the kids in his books were doing. I also  took note if he had follow-up questions about the books I was listening to.

Versed: Your son attends Olin right now. How did he know that this was the right school for him?  What process led him to apply to this school, and ultimately to enroll?

Robin: My son discovered his interest in engineering in the 9th grade when his science teacher persuaded him to consider engineering, which he defined as “solving human problems with math and science.” Once I had an idea of my son’s grades and test scores, I preselected about 40 ‘good value’ schools for which I would be willing to pay tuition. The idea was that he could go ‘anywhere he wanted to, but if he wanted his parents to pay for it he had to stick to the list.  I  categorized them into 3 levels of  competitiveness. I cut up description pages from a college guide book and put them in a loose-leaf notebook inside page protectors. During a vacation when my son was home from boarding school, I presented the book to him and asked him to pick 3-5 from each category to build his list. 

I put Olin on the list of schools to pick from because it offers a great engineering program which would give him a solid foundation for many different careers and for life. As an adult in the working world, I had observed that engineers have a deep belief that ‘reality exists.’ I found that to be delightful, and terrific preparation for life no matter what career path he chose.  In addition, Olin is small and the staff takes an active interest in the intellectual and character development of its students. I love that its philosophy is to learn by doing. This is particularly important for certain ‘strong-minded’ kids like my son, who have to find out things the hard way.

I respected the way that my son didn’t get emotionally involved with having a favorite school until he got his acceptance letters. Among the schools that accepted him, Olin was the most selective, with the best reputation. My son only applied to schools where he had the feeling that he would be able to fit in and be happy socially. Throughout the whole process, we tried not to get caught in the trap of  ‘most selective = best’, or the school identity defines your worth. To do this, we often referred to the wise words of his aunt, “You can get a great education anywhere, but it’s up to you to meet your professors and develop your network.”

Versed: What things did your son do in high school to support his interests in engineering?

Robin: My son participated in his high school science fair, and did a summer program in research at CTY (JHU Center for Talented Youth). He also took as many AP math and science classes as he could convince his teachers to offer. 

Versed: What extracurricular activities did your son spend the most time on, and what has helped him most in discovering and pursuing those interests?

He was interested in: acting; reading; playing basketball for his high school team; editing for the school newspaper; music - learning trombone and bass guitar, drums (self-taught), acoustic and electric guitar. Boarding school served as the perfect place for him to participate in sports and clubs because they were all conveniently located within walking distance, and because video games were forbidden. He didn’t really use his extracurricular activities to pursue intellectual excellence, but more to discover himself and to learn how to be an excellent team member.  His experience with the basketball team showed him that, if he worked hard enough, he could accomplish a lot more than he had expected.

Versed: What resources were most helpful to your children when they were going through the college application process? 

Robin: He did individualized test prep and took the SATs multiple times, which was very helpful. But the crown jewel was his writing tutor who helped him develop as a writer, and as a person. He learned how to examine himself openly and share vulnerability. 

Versed: Can you share with us one of your takeaways from this whole experience?

Robin: The college application process required a lot of energy, and there were plenty of times when each of us were  pushed out of our comfort zone, but it was also meaningful and fun for my son and I. It was a great lesson in how to make a wise decision based on personal values in a context where one really can’t know what the outcome will be. What a great opportunity to do the best one can, and leave the rest to fate!  About 6 months after all the acceptances came back, my son told me at dinner: “I have to appreciate the support you and dad gave me during this process. Some of my friend’s parent just wanted them to go to their alma maters and pushed way too much. Some of my friend’s parents weren’t involved at all, and the kids ended up at much less competitive schools than I think they belonged at. But you gave me vital support while allowing me to search for the school that was right for me.”

See Robin's Profile here.

If you are interested in speaking with Robin, or one of our other Advisors, you can start with a free introductory consultation here.

Subscribe to our Newsletter 

Receive inside track information on college admissions process, high school and middle school planning, general pre-college guidance, and be the first to know about our events and announcements.

Education continues to be a way of life for Silvia, who has successfully helped many families navigate the college admissions process as well as private and boarding school admissions both in the US and abroad.  With children at Swarthmore and Penn Medical School, Silvia has navigated many academic pathways, and her children attended many different kinds of schools: public gifted and talented programs, magnet schools and top private high schools in New York City.  

Versed: When did you start thinking about college for your kids?

Silvia: I’m from a family that deeply values learning and education. I started talking about college with my kids pretty early, in about 4th or 5th grade.

Versed: What did the educational / extracurricular journey look like for your kids in grade school?

Silvia: I believe in child-led learning and I exposed my kids to as many opportunities and life experiences as possible. We moved internationally for my job, so my children got to live on four different continents and become global citizens. Since the arts are a major passion of my family, we spent most of our free time on weekends at museums around the world. It was a wonderful adventure. Over time, my kids also did a mixture of homeschooling, online learning (EPGY) and traditional school at both public gifted magnet schools and private schools.

Both my kids are passionate about sports. Each chose a sport (swimming, table tennis, soccer) that they selected and practiced exclusively. Both kids say that sports gave a structure to their schedules, forced them to focus on being organized so they could compete and stay up to date with their busy academic schedules and their friends, and gave them confidence.

All of that said, I also believe that my children benefited from helping others (including helping out with family responsibilities). My kids started volunteering in the community at an early age: they worked at a center for kids with Down Syndrome; read to blind children at the local library; and tutored students with autism spectrum disorders. Later on, they even encouraged their friends to volunteer with them, and then started community service clubs at their respective schools. I think these experiences empowered them to be who they are today and made a difference in their career choices.

Versed: How did you determine what was interesting to your kids?

Silvia: I simply exposed them to various environments and activities, and I let them discover what interested them. Each child selected his/her own journey and I followed: my main function was to initiate and introduce. I think it is critical that we, as parents, introduce our kids to all possible experiences, share our views and guide, not lead, our kids through the process, and eventually our kids will find their calling.

Versed: How did your parenting change in regards to your children’s education/extracurricular journey as they entered middle school? 

Silvia: Both of my kids have different learning issues. I knew from very early on in their educations that they would have significant struggles on the way to higher education. In middle school, having consistency and a sound work ethic was the key for us. I got my kids accommodations at school to help support them, and I taught them to speak up when they needed help. I also helped the kids with their executive skills so they could be less stressed and reach their potential. Although the kids had learning differences, they were comfortable in their own skin and always said, "Mom, can I try again?".

Versed: After graduating from Tufts, your son is now studying to be a surgeon at Penn Med (Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania), and your daughter is at Swarthmore College and planning to go to med school to be a pediatric psychiatrist.

How was the college admissions process for your son/daughter? 

Silvia: Each child had their own experience with drastic differences. The college counselors at both my kids’ schools were very skeptical about them and didn’t seem to think they would be competitive applicants for top college. Quite honestly, I think they didn’t understand that kids with learning differences could be high achievers. We met once with each counselor and never went back. Against the advice of the schools, we did the entire college application process on our own, and my kids got into their first choices.  

Versed: Your kids are both STEM majors. What activities did they do in high school to support these interests?

My son did independent research for the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair, worked with disabled kids, shadowed doctors, and tutored all his high school friends in physics. He also loved table tennis and soccer, and still plays soccer in medical school.

My daughter worked with disabled children, and shadowed doctors in different medical fields from dermatology to surgery. Even though she loved science, she also loved photography, editing, and swimming on her high school team.

Versed: What resources were most helpful to you and your kids when they were going through the college application process?  

Silvia: The most important resource was a supportive test prep center, especially because we didn’t work with the schools’ college counselors. Both kids did test prep on weekends at a test prep center in Flushing (NY) called “Elite Academy.” This place became our second home because it was so supportive of our family and delivered solid results. 

Versed: Can you share with us one of your takeaways from this whole experience?

Silvia: Never give up on your child, never.  Listen to your inner voice as a parent and follow your gut feelings. Do your own research. Definitely talk to professionals, but make sure you do what you think is best for your own child even if the professionals don’t necessarily agree.

See Silvia's profile here.

If you are interested in speaking with Silvia, or one of our other Advisors, you can start with a free introductory consultation here.

Subscribe to our Newsletter 

Receive inside track information on college admissions process, high school and middle school planning, general pre-college guidance, and be the first to know about our events and announcements.

Our spotlight is on Virginia, a mother of three: two daughters and a son. She hails from San Francisco, California and is passionate about youth education, having nurtured her own for the past 18 years (and counting). 

Versed: When did you start thinking about college for your kids?

Virg: (laughs) Truthfully, we started talking about college when they were in grade school. I just wanted them to get the big picture, that their education is from Kindergarten through college. It was important to me that they get at least an undergraduate degree. 

Versed: Wow! That’s early!

Virg: Oh we weren’t trying to be “tiger parents”. We just talked about it in passing, like we would about middle school and high school. It’s just part of the whole educational journey and setting those expectations early on.

Versed: What did the educational / extracurricular journey look like for your kids in grade school?

Virg: When my kids were young, we just played. We did things at home like making up science experiments and doing arts and crafts projects. We explored the world through field trips to museums and parks. And we had them attend classes that we thought would be fun to help them explore different activities that might uncover what was interesting to them. I loved watching them grow and discover the world. It’s always neat to catch a gleam in my child’s eye when they are doing something that interests them.

Versed: How did you determine what was interesting to your kids?

Virg: Obviously if they’re enthusiastic about what they’re doing, that’s a sure sign we are on the right track. But sometimes, they may be reluctant to try new things, or maybe they still enjoy an activity but they’re rejecting it because they’re unsure of their abilities. So I really had to pay attention and observe my kids to help them make the right decisions. 

Versed: How did your parenting change in regards to your children’s education / extracurricular journey as they entered middle school?

Virg: Middle school is when I told my kids to focus on one or two activities. I knew there wouldn’t be enough time to do everything they wanted to do with high school just over the horizon. I encouraged them to choose amongst all of the activities they enjoyed ones that would challenge them and help them grow. 

Versed: You have a son who attends Johns Hopkins right now. How was the college admissions process for your son? 

Virg: Hard! There was so much we had to do. I felt rushed, trying to get my head around all of the moving parts. As an athlete (fencing), he had to complete his resume, testing, and early admission application earlier than his regular admission apps due to the recruiting timeline. And he had to deal with all of this while going through junior year, which is when kids tend to take the most challenging classes. It was so stressful for him and for us parents. Thankfully, it all came together. The admissions process is definitely easier if you research and plan ahead of time. 

Versed: Your son is a STEM major. What things did he do in high school to support his interests?

Virg: He made sure he had clear communication with his academic advisor that he wanted to pursue a STEM major in college so that he would take the necessary courses to be competitive when it came time to apply. By junior year, he had decided to apply to college for one of the most impacted majors in STEM: Bio-Medical Engineering. We didn’t find out until it was too late that anyone who wants a shot at a spot needs to have some research experience. He didn’t get into Johns Hopkins for that major, but it worked out anyways as he found another path to his goals.   

Versed: What are your top tips for surviving the recruiting process for fencing?

Virg: Start thinking about the process as early as sophomore year. The truth is, fencing recruiting is starting earlier and earlier these days. When my child was just beginning to fence, the coaches couldn’t talk to anyone until the Nationals of the summer before senior year. Nowadays, I’ve heard of kids being scouted a year or two before that, but most discussions between the college coach and the child still occur during Nationals, if not during the Junior Olympics (informally), before senior year. So definitely start by having a conversation with your coach: find out how your child’s coach can help with the process. Start a list of fencing colleges your child is interested in attending based on their intended area of study. Consider their involvement in the sport as a college participant, because each division (1, 2, 3) has their own priorities and expectations. Contact the coaches of each school that your child would like to consider via email to let them know his or her interest. Finally, have your child get his or her resume and SAT/ACTs done early for the initial admissions screening, which is required in many schools before an official “pursue” can be issued by the coach. All of this happens months before anyone submits applications for regular admission. So athletic recruitment operates on its own timeline, whether you are a fencer or participate in any other sport. 

Versed: Can you share with us one of your takeaways from this whole experience?

Virg: Definitely provide opportunities for your child to explore and plan things out, but don’t do it at the expense of your child’s journey to finding her own passions. The focus should always be to help your child figure out what she enjoys doing and using that as your guide. And be mindful of projecting your own hopes and desires onto your children: this is their future that they should dictate and own. 

See Virginia’s profile here.

If you are interested in speaking with Virginia, or one of our other Advisors, you can start with a free introductory consultation here.

Subscribe to our Newsletter 

Receive inside track information on college admissions process, high school and middle school planning, general pre-college guidance, and be the first to know about our events and announcements.